[Street] NYPD takes both of OWS livestreams
Ravi Mishra
ravi at occupyboston.org
Fri Jan 6 13:11:02 EST 2012
This is an interesting place to have this conversation (the street list)
but I'd like to dive in, being somewhat curious and comfortable with most
everyone on here (I think). given the previous discussion, it seems there
is some interest. If anyone wants to take this off list, I'd be happy to do
so.
So I'm sort of stuck in the middle. On one hand, I (as usual :) think that
Nicole has a great point and perspective, and I enjoyed the article. I've
learned a ton about oppressive structures and am keen on understanding how
to rebuild communication without oppression.
On the other, it seems oppressive to use a space to discuss an issue that
most people don't want to discuss also seems oppressive. To put that
tangibly, using GA to talk about Sexual Abuse if a majority of the group
does not want to discuss it is, quite literally, a minority of the people
dictating what the majority do. This majority has two options - suck it up
and stay put, or vote with their feet and leave.
To go back to the other side, the first option is pretty legitimate. The
thinking is that the minority has been oppressed for so long, and the least
the majority can do is allow the conversation to go on.
But I wonder if, practically speaking, this is a good strategy. It seems
that, to open someone's eyes, you have to approach them (and have them
approach you) from a stance of love and understanding, and that those
feelings are necessary and conducive to being open to truth.
Put more simply, people have to *want* to learn, and if you try to force
them to learn, you probably end up hurting your end goal (by antagonizing
them).
So tl;dr: I have no idea what to think about the proposal, other than maybe
forcing it down people's throats (IF that's what's happening - huge if)
might be counterproductive.
--
Ravi
On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Patricia Downer
<patricia.downer at gmail.com>wrote:
> +1 Nicole
>
> While it is frustrating to have this discussion continue for so many days,
> it is ABSOLUTELY important to the functioning of the movement. Not every
> discussion can or should focus on actions. We also need a unified structure
> behind those actions. A part of that is making sure that we make an effort
> to make people feel safe at events. This proposal is a step towards that
> (it doesn't completely achieve that, but it shouldn't have to...we just
> need a step in the right direction).
>
> The discussions have been just as much about breaking down oppressive
> structures and privilege as they have been about the content of the
> proposal itself. The discussion also branched off into lots of other
> important subjects that we have yet to tackle such has how OB will provide
> a space for redress of grievances in general. (Which actually wasn't really
> the initial intent of the proposal.)
>
> Matthew - I would have loved to hear more about what was in the subject
> line of your email without the digs about this proposal. I would be curious
> what concerns you have about the NH protests (without digs about said
> proposal). We have actions planned. After yesterday's proposal, we now have
> some funds allocated.
>
> To all - Please don't loose respect for this proposal just because of your
> frustrations with the amount of time it is taking to get a solution. Please
> don't turn to infighting over the process (especially without constructive
> suggestions of how to improve said process).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Patricia Downer
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2012 at 11:45 AM, Nicole Sullivan <nicole_sullivan at live.com
> > wrote:
>
>> Actions do not get planned at GA's. Quite frankly, if you want this
>> movement to survive- we are going to have spend time doing the internal
>> work to dismantle oppressive structures within occupy. This long lasting
>> conversation at GA has been one of the most important ones we have had.
>> This is good reading on the subject:
>> http://inciteblog.wordpress.com/2010/07/15/why-misogynists-make-great-informants-how-gender-violence-on-the-left-enables-state-violence-in-radical-movements/ .
>> I'm not quite sure why spending GA talking about a proposal that is needed
>> means all these other things aren't happening. I know I've been personally
>> working on those issues with the working groups I am in.
>>
>> What I am hearing with this thread is that: Gendered violence is a
>> distraction to our greater cause therefore we should not be talking about
>> it. Matthew- you could have sent this news about OWS without the dig at
>> the people who care deeply about making Occupy the model to change the
>> world. You could have also sent your concerns about those of us going to
>> New Hampshire without that as well. Also, just an FYI- my main concern
>> about staying with strangers in NH is not lack of food or shelter, its
>> staying with strange men with no accountability structures if they decide
>> to hurt me.
>>
>> Basically, my patience and tolerance for people sweeping sexual violence
>> aside for the "greater cause" is at zero.
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>> > To: matthewk at krawnet.com; street-bounces+juliet.stone2=
>> verizon.net at lists.occupyboston.org; eden at occupyboston.org
>> > From: juliet.stone2 at verizon.net
>> > Date: Fri, 6 Jan 2012 14:38:19 +0000
>> > CC: street at lists.occupyboston.org
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [Street] NYPD takes both of OWS livestreams
>> >
>> > YES
>> > I was at the GA and was confused as to why OB had become misdirected
>> > Horizontal democracy that looses sight of original motivators for
>> action threatens our ability to function
>> > A working group on medical/social personal internal specifics should
>> not be focus of GAs! Yes sexual misconduct, predatory behavior etc cannot
>> be tolerated as this behavior whether pathological or not needs clear
>> boundries and may need medical and/or exclusionary action by OB to insure
>> we have safe spaces
>> > Do we not want our time and energy to focus on
>> > The NH Primary
>> > Affordable housing
>> > Public transportation
>> > Universal Health care
>> > Corporate power impact on Democracy
>> > Quality Education for all
>> > Etc etc.
>> > Coalition building!!
>> > Uniting with global and national and local movements is our strength!
>> > Not an internal personal medical disciplinary issue at GAs
>> > We need to keep our eyes on the grape
>> > As Chavez said!
>> > Onward
>> > Julie
>> > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Matthew Krawitz <matthewk at krawnet.com>
>> > Sender: street-bounces+juliet.stone2=verizon.net at lists.occupyboston.org
>> > Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 03:50:13
>> > To: Free School University<eden at occupyboston.org>
>> > Cc: <street at lists.occupyboston.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Street] NYPD takes both of OWS livestreams
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Street mailing list
>> >
>> > Post: Street at lists.occupyboston.org
>> > List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/street
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe
>> > Send email to: Street-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org
>> > Or visit:
>> https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/street/juliet.stone2%40verizon.net
>> >
>> > You are subscribed as: juliet.stone2 at verizon.net
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Street mailing list
>> >
>> > Post: Street at lists.occupyboston.org
>> > List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/street
>> >
>> > To Unsubscribe
>> > Send email to: Street-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org
>> > Or visit:
>> https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/street/nicole_sullivan%40live.com
>> >
>> > You are subscribed as: nicole_sullivan at live.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Street mailing list
>>
>> Post: Street at lists.occupyboston.org
>> List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/street
>>
>> To Unsubscribe
>> Send email to: Street-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org
>> Or visit:
>> https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/street/patricia.downer%40gmail.com
>>
>> You are subscribed as: patricia.downer at gmail.com
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Street mailing list
>
> Post: Street at lists.occupyboston.org
> List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/street
>
> To Unsubscribe
> Send email to: Street-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org
> Or visit:
> https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/street/occupybostontech%40gmail.com
>
> You are subscribed as: occupybostontech at gmail.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/private/street/attachments/20120106/8c65fcab/attachment.htm>
More information about the Street
mailing list