[Street] [Ob-media] A Note of Concern

Deborah Sirotkin Butler amberpaw at gmail.com
Thu Nov 24 22:21:28 EST 2011


I think treating one another with respect is fundamental, really.  But
sometimes the 'very meaning of a word' differs from one culture or
subculture to another.  I am going to give a very mundane, non-political
example.  I grew up ina 1st generation, immigrant household with English
not my first language and not my mother's first language, either.  I
married someone whose ancestors came over on the second voyage of the
Mayflower, and who takes certain things for granted that are, in fact, not
things I even am aware of.

Anyway, I did a "knock your socks off" very complicated, I thought gourmet
dinner.  I was also taking care of our ADHD very very difficult child and a
new baby.  Spouse comes home, I ask how was dinner, he says 'sufficient'.
Bang goes the front door as I stomp out, so as not to tear into him as I
was furious.  Come to find out, he actually thought that was a compliment -
and seems it may be in the very very undemonstrative culture he was raised
in.  So we had to do some work (still do sometimes) because the verbal
messages he and I send sometimes just don't get heard the way they were
intended.  I know this is - quite literally, a "kitchen" example and I
don't think it will post to all the lists that Theresa posted to - but I
think sometimes the anger comes from the reality that even the same words
in English mean different things to different people.

Before I went overseas as part of language training 'back in the day' we
all had to read *The Silent Language *by Hall - and think about how close
or far we stand to people when talking to them, become conscious of our
hand motions, and a whole lot more because the culture where we were going
interpreted such things differently from the norm, here.

I have since become aware that different sub communities in the USA
consider the distance between speakers, interrupting as a sign of status,
and whether or not to look who your are talking to in the eye differently.
I had the rather disgusting experience of a judge locking up a CHINS
(Children in Need of Services) client up in DYS for two weeks, because this
14 year old looked her in the eye and so she (the female judge) interpreted
this as the client trying to stare her down, and it did not matter to this
judge that in his culture that was, in fact, a sign of respect and looking
down or away would have signified disrespect.

In my culture of origin, agreeing with people without argument or
discussion signifies that you think they are too stupid and otherwise
incompetent to deal with truth or disagreement; it is hard for me to
remember that in the mainstream culture "arguing" if the other person
considers themselves of a higher status can cause major offense.  The
culture I grew up in children not only were treated as normal for
disagreeing with adults, but freely moved into relatives homes on their own
initiative, or other "landsmen" on and off, and no one thought much of it.
We often had others living with us, and I have fostered (not through the
state) friends of my kids so many times I have lost count.  It always
surprises me that giving a home to a young adult in transition is viewed as
unusual is, well, strange.  Where I grew up, in a culture of
immigrants,many still with concentration camp numbers on their arms, it was
the norm.  People shared and dropped by - but in New England, at least in
my experience, that isn't done.

This is a long way of saying that trying not to take people personally when
each of us comes to this movement with a lot of personal and cultural
baggage would work better.  We just are as we are, each of us.

Deb Sirotkin Butler aka AmberPaw (Who sometimes does still feel "like a
stranger in a strange land" in New England)


On Thu, Nov 24, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Theresa <theresa at occupyboston.org> wrote:

> I have similar concerns.  We as a movement have to remember that we come
> from a variety of backgrounds, but we have come here for a common goal.  I
> know a lot of times when I go back to my email and read them without
> considering the tone I  was using, they seem more abrasive then I mean for
> them to.  Going forward, I will try to be more conscientious about my
> choice of words.
>
> I really hope that we can find our way to a common ground based in respect
> and solidarity for our common goals and mission.  We don't have to agree to
> treat each other with respect.
>
> Thanks for sharing your concern Z.
>
>
> Theresa
>
>
> Quoting Z Bowditch <zthetop at yahoo.com>:
>
>  As I suspect most of you know, there have been some very angry emails
>> going back and forth recently.  I cannot claim to understand the whole
>> picture, seeing as I had 120+ emails waiting in my inbox this afternoon,
>> but the tone of the discussion that I did read was deeply concerning to me,
>> and I feel needs to be addressed.
>>
>> I understand that there are things that are going on at the OB tent city
>> that cannot continue, including but not limited to bullying, threats and
>> violence, and that not everyone agrees on the issues, let alone the
>> solutions.  However, the way one approaches others in conversations like GA
>> and even email lists like these really makes a difference in how you and
>> your arguments are perceived.  Even folks with the best intentions can get
>> confrontational when faced with an angry person and very little gets done
>> when people get angry or defensive.
>>
>> As a group, we need to be able to successfully communicate with each
>> other, even though we come from many different backgrounds and have many
>> different ideas.  Now, more than ever, it is important that Occupy Boston
>> and the Occupy movement as a whole stays unified and invented in the issues
>> at the core of our movement.  With the court hearing just around the
>> corner, and winter on our doorstep, we need conversation and not conflict.
>>
>> I welcome any discussion on how we can go about encouraging dialogue, and
>> what can be done both online and at Dewey Square.
>>
>>
>> Z
>> zthetop at yahoo.com
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