[Street] Summary of call re: pushing the event back

Ravi Mishra ravi at occupyboston.org
Sun Nov 27 00:28:46 EST 2011


Hi all,

I love love love the enthusiasm here (I've been blown away and inspired by
it since the first email), but I'd like to refocus the conversation. I get
worried hearing some of things being said. I really can't agree that the
event will be great no matter how it goes - I just can't follow the logic.
Sometimes, events suck because of poor planning. It happens. Nor do I think
there is any chance of us not doing the event if we push it back. And I
agree we do stuff by learning, but we're doing (and learning) either way.

I'm /not/ saying this is going "suck" or anything close to it if we have it
on the 3rd. I'm just trying to make clear that we're simply weighing
tactical considerations. On the one hand, we can keep things as they are -
go forward with 12/3 and work our tails off to organize open source
demonstrations, create materials, book speakers/music/etc. for the rally,
and so on. On the other, we sow some confusion by pushing the date back a
week, but then have an extra week to do all these things.

I think we're particularly vulnerable to a (very natural) psychological
trap here, where our abundant enthusiasm could be overriding more
calculating judgment. Pushing it back, for whatever reason, feels like
we're losing something, and the public reaction (even embarrassment) is
more immediate - we feel it right away. On the flip side, pushing forward
carries with it no immediate feedback, and any repercussions from the
decision are amorphous and farther in the future - but they are real
nonetheless! To combat this, try to frame the decision by imagining your
post-event self - would you rather have taken an extra week? To me, given
the state of our current planning, this strongly influences me in the
postponing direction.

Finally, I really think we can get the word out about a date change easily.
People know who we are, and we can get the message out pretty easily
between the various channels available to us (email blast, fb, twitter,
eventbrite, outreach, etc.). But I could be reading the situation
incorrectly.


Katie and anyone else I disagreed with - it was painful writing the above.
I love you guys so much and hope you know I'm only writing because I
strongly believe we could use an extra week to get everything in order. I
hope this discussion is ultimately making our group's social bonds and
decision making framework stronger. And if we go ahead with the 3rd, I'm on
board 110%.


Eric - can you expand on your thought that the date might be difficult? We
checked with some students (members of Occupy Students, I believe) who
seemed to imply it wouldn't be a big deal. Also, we're having an open
planning meeting to discuss this and will decide then. I won't be able to
be there, so I'm trying to express my thoughts at length via email.

--
Ravi



On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 7:50 PM, Katie Gradowski
<katie.gradowski at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hey all!
>
> I'd just like to reiterate my initial point, which was basically that if
> there's not 100 percent total agreement and immediate relief at pushing the
> date back, we should move forward with the December 3 date.   at this
> point, it's been circulated widely, and holding a lengthy discussion about
> pushing the date back only saps time and energy.
>
> For my part, a lot of my energy for the past week has been channeled into
> trying to negotiate the tricky terrain between Occupy Boston and Occupy the
> Hood, as well as supporting last week's summit + OB court preparation.
> This march, as well as the anti-foreclosure work I've been trying to get
> off the ground, both unfortunately got pushed to the side to deal with
> these other (equally pressing) issues.
>
> That said, I'm tremendously excited about the work that HAS been done,
> both the (mostly done and awesome) work by Ocupemos el Barrio, as well as
> the emergent work happening with the women's caucus, DA, street theater,
> and other groups.   Occupy the Hood, I think, is going to have someone at
> the Monday meeting, which is a huge step forward -- just getting that
> conversation going again has been a big deal, and is really essential to
> being able to do this and similar events in the future.
>
> Regarding Ravi's point, I heartily disagree -- insofar as the entirety of
> Occupy Boston is a kind of crazy, experimental ground for figuring out how
> to do stuff, I think the march will be great however it winds up turning
> out.   We ONLY learn by doing things, and pushing things off because we're
> worried about them not being perfect is the surest way to never do them.
> So let's do this!   And let's do it on the 3rd.
>
> all best,
>
> Katie
>
>
>
> I think that's also important for this march --
>
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 6:11 PM, Joseph Ramsey <jgramsey at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I actually think also we should see this march (on the 3rd!) as an
>> opportunity to build mass support to prevent the camp from being cleared.
>> (assuming they have not attacked us by the 3rd.)
>>
>> In fact, I would argue that one thing we should be doing, through our
>> conversations, is LETTING EVERYONE IN THIS CITY KNOW HOW THEY CAN HELP US
>> IN THE EVENT OF A POLICE ASSAULT.
>>
>> -Joe
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 5:43 PM, Theresa <theresa at occupyboston.org>wrote:
>>
>>> I think the 3rd is our best option....especially with the court hearing
>>> this week. It is a way to keep momentum even if the camp gets cleared.
>>>
>>> Please confirm the date.  I start calls Monday morning
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting Occupy Eric <occupyeric at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>  Point of Info: Students will likely have a hard time with a Dec 10
>>>> march.
>>>>
>>>> Also, since this has been billed as a crowd-source event, us making the
>>>> decision to postpone the march isn't really in the spirit of this
>>>> march, in
>>>> my opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Solidarity!
>>>> Eric
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 5:13 PM, Brett West <heavyriser at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Hey Joe,
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, word is out about this event for sure. Some who have been
>>>>> organizing
>>>>> it feel that it may not be to late to postpone it and make it better by
>>>>> doing so. You should bring these concerns to the meeting on Monday.
>>>>>
>>>>> The more community support shows up on Monday the better the chances of
>>>>> holding to the Dec. 3 date
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 4:49 PM, Joseph Ramsey <jgramsey at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  The call for this action has already been issued, has it not?  I
>>>>>> personally forwarded it to several lists today!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To postpone now is to sew confusion, isn't it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also, with the possibility of an immanent assault on Dewey Square very
>>>>>> real post Dec. 1, isn't it important to do this sort of aggressive
>>>>>> outreach
>>>>>> and rallying of the community (in support of occupy generally, and in
>>>>>> defense of dewey in particular) sooner rather than later?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Joe
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 4:33 PM, David Lamoso <
>>>>>> davidlamoso16 at gmail.com>**wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Joseph
>>>>>>> The event there talking about is the Unity Day of Action ditributed
>>>>>>> march on Dec 3. We are meeting on Monday at 5:00pm in 26 West st,
>>>>>>> Boston.
>>>>>>> For details of it.
>>>>>>> En Sokidaridad
>>>>>>> DavidLamoso
>>>>>>> Davidlamoso16 at gmail.com
>>>>>>> Sent from my MetroPCS Wireless Phone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph Ramsey <jgramsey at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >Which "event" is being spoken of here?
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >as a general point of process: It would be helpful if people made
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> >referrents (whether to people, places, or events) clear in all
>>>>>>> emails.
>>>>>>>  Or
>>>>>>> >at least in all *new* topic emails.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >  So many people are constantly coming into our conversations in the
>>>>>>> middle
>>>>>>> >that confusion is inevitable, especially if the "theys" "him"s
>>>>>>> "her"s
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> >"this"s arent't explicit throughout.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Best,
>>>>>>> >Joe
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 9:22 PM, Ravi Mishra <ravi at occupyboston.org
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> We had about 6-8 people on the call. We pretty quickly decided
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> two dates were going to be the 3rd or one week later, the 10th.
>>>>>>> There
>>>>>>> were
>>>>>>> >> a lot of reasons to keep the march on the 3rd that David,
>>>>>>> Michael, and
>>>>>>> >> Simon went into. From what I remember, Katie voiced her concerns
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> seemed
>>>>>>> >> undecided. Brett seemed convinced to keep it on the 3rd.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I thought it would be useful to keep the conversation going,
>>>>>>> especially as
>>>>>>> >> I'm pretty in favor of pushing it back and giving us an extra
>>>>>>> week. I
>>>>>>> >> wanted to go into my reasoning below, and start a thread so we
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> >> discuss. We made no conclusion other than to bring it up on
>>>>>>> Monday at
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> >> meeting, first thing. Without further ado, why I think we should
>>>>>>> push
>>>>>>> it
>>>>>>> >> back:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> 1) The "open source" piece of demonstrations is just doesn't have
>>>>>>> enough
>>>>>>> >> momentum behind it. To me, the promise of this event is that we
>>>>>>> empower
>>>>>>> >> individuals to use their creativity to come up with novel types of
>>>>>>> actions
>>>>>>> >> - hopefully ones that, long term, serve as a blueprint for more
>>>>>>> effective
>>>>>>> >> demonstrations in the future. Right now, we have very few actions
>>>>>>> listed (
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/**spreadsheet/ccc?key=**
>>>>>>> 0Ah3pFB7dtoJJdERLcDU3WG1WMHpaS**DZkeE03X1d4SHc&hl=en_US#gid=0<https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ah3pFB7dtoJJdERLcDU3WG1WMHpaSDZkeE03X1d4SHc&hl=en_US#gid=0>
>>>>>>> )
>>>>>>> >> - people knew to the concept of the event are hearing about it and
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> >> seeing us not have any cool, crowdsourced events planned. Further,
>>>>>>> we've
>>>>>>> >> made none of the materials we talked about - the flyers about the
>>>>>>> various
>>>>>>> >> issues, personal stories, etc.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> 2) The rally. As far as I know, we have nothing planned, nor have
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>> >> reached out to the police or done much prep work.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> 3) Community orgs - outside of a handful, we haven't really
>>>>>>> reached
>>>>>>> out to
>>>>>>> >> many. Judging by the reaction of the ones we have reached out to,
>>>>>>> having
>>>>>>> >> more time to do more outreach could be huge.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> 4) The amount we gain is much more than the amount we lose.
>>>>>>> Ultimately, I
>>>>>>> >> don't think pushing it back really has much downside - people are
>>>>>>> listening
>>>>>>> >> to us, and we can easily get the message out (and spin it as a
>>>>>>> positive for
>>>>>>> >> us: we have a lot of interest and we want to give both the various
>>>>>>> >> communities and ourselves more time to prepare a great event -
>>>>>>> Simon's
>>>>>>> >> great idea for how we could frame it). And more time gives us some
>>>>>>> >> breathing room to make sure we pull off a great event.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> *Ultimately, the beauty of this event, in my mind, is that first
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >> would take over the city with a variety of demonstrations, and
>>>>>>> second, that
>>>>>>> >> we would create a culture of innovation when it comes to actions,
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> >> people thinking about how to make them more effective,
>>>>>>> informative,
>>>>>>> and fun.
>>>>>>> >> * Right now, with the event 8 days away, I feel like an extra week
>>>>>>> would
>>>>>>> >> be a great idea.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Finally, I think I speak for everyone on the call when I say that,
>>>>>>> >> whatever the final decision, we'll be diving in 100% to make this
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> great
>>>>>>> >> event.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>> >> Ravi
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
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>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You can do anything you want, as long as you don't wait for permission.
>>>>>
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>
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