[Consensus] [Facilitation] [Spokes] A Consensus Weekend Retreat
Gregory Murphy
gsjmurphy at gmail.com
Mon Feb 20 18:50:47 EST 2012
I understand you point of view, Terra . . .
. . . as a community we are beginning to consider consensus, so, I was
moved to share the info to expedite the learning curve . . .
. . . but, if other folks on this list, also did as I did, and started
advertising or promoting other workshops and trainings that other people
are offering, then the email list would get cluttered with ads, and that
certainly does not feel right
GM
On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:55 PM, Terra Friedrichs <terraf at compuserve.com>wrote:
> **
> Yeah, but just like I don't think that anyone should be making money from
> these OB lists, I feel like advertising someone's services, as important as
> they may be, just isn't right. I mean why shouldn't I advertise my
> services? Because of what a homeless guy said to me once. He said, "you
> guys are "using" me". He said that he feels like professional party (and
> revolution) coordinators are "using" the strife on the streets to make
> money off of his struggling. He said, if you're going to make a buck doing
> this work, then I want a buck to hold this sign. It's a point that's worth
> considering, IMHO. Using the urgency of "the movement" as a reason not to
> bother to stop and do things ethically seems very wrong to me. It's one
> thing to move fast. It's one thing to coordinate. And plan. And do radical
> stuff to "solve problems". But I thought this was a volunteer gig. Not a
> volunteer gig, where we get donations and give them to pros, or use our
> name to advertise service over our lists, etc. I'm convincing a ton of
> people to keep working on this for free. To use our lists to advertise
> someone else's revenue generating business is beyond the pale, whether he
> touched himself or someone else or not.
>
> I'm sorry to take a hard stance on this. But I really don't think we
> should be advertising anything but our own events. If he wants to come
> volunteer his time to come tell us magical secrets about touching the
> stars, I'll help advertise the event, whether or not he's touched.
>
> Beyond that, roger over and out.
>
> Terra
>
> *~*~*~*
> Terra Friedrichs978 808 7173 (cell)978 266 2775 (desk)978 266 2778 (home/messages)
>
>
> On 2/20/2012 2:49 PM, Gregory Murphy wrote:
>
> this issue was put to bed, awhile ago - I spoke with Nunes who confirmed
> that no physical contact was made by either party and that apologies were
> exchanged, later that night
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 2:42 PM, Nicole Sullivan <
> nicole_sullivan at live.com> wrote:
>
>> To those who are concerned about CT Butler:
>>
>> I cannot speak for anyone but myself. I was there the night where people
>> claimed he shoved/ choked an occupy boston member.
>>
>> I was trying to convince DA to not lead the march through the middle of
>> GA, I was standing about 5 ft from the incident. I saw CT Butlet approach
>> the individual with his hands in the air, people started crowding around
>> and I saw the individual shove CT Butler. I personally did not see him lay
>> a hand on anyone.
>>
>> I cannot say I am 100 percent sure on what happened, I was trying to
>> manage a really difficult situation. I just want to give my perspective,
>> since what I saw seems to be very different than other reports.
>>
>> Nicole
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jorge Alvarez <eghm627 at mac.com>
>> Date: Mon, 20 Feb 2012 16:28:11
>> To: <abucci at occupyboston.org>
>> Cc: <consensus at lists.occupyboston.org>; <spokes at lists.occupyboston.org>;
>> <facilitation at lists.occupyboston.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Facilitation] [Consensus] [Spokes] A Consensus Weekend
>> Retreat
>>
>> so much for anti-oppression work...
>>
>>
>> thanks for the "heads up!"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> With peace,
>> Jorge Alvarez
>> eghm627 at mac.com <mailto:eghm627 at mac.com>
>>
>>
>> This email was composed on a mobile device. Please excuse any errors.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 20, 2012, at 10:55 AM, Anthony Bucci wrote:
>> POI: I've recently heard yet another not-so-flattering story about Butler
>> from a friend of mine. Unsolicited, he told me he was once at an event in
>> which Butler sat down at a table with him and made so many "inappropriate
>> comments" (as my friend called them) to people, especially women
>> apparently, that he was asked to leave the table. I can put anyone
>> interested in touch with this friend to get a firsthand account.
>>
>> Anthony
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 19, 2012 at 12:55 PM, Gregory Murphy <gsjmurphy at gmail.com<mailto:
>> gsjmurphy at gmail.com> > wrote:
>> Consensus, Spokes and Facilitation,
>>
>> I am resending this email about a Consensus Workshop, next weekend on
>> Long Island. In response to my request for a payment plan, C. T. agreed to
>> accept 3 monthly payments of $83.33, and also informed me that this offer
>> is available to anyone else from Boston, who may want to attend. Allison
>> and I both want to participate, and I encourage our friends and colleagues
>> who are interested in consensus to join us, for this weekend outing. We do
>> not have a car, so most probably will avail ourselves of MegaBus. We just
>> need to figure out childcare for our daughter.
>>
>> I also share two comments from recent emails, from C. T.. He has recently
>> bought an old RV, and he and colleagues are planning to embark on a
>> national tour of Occupations, in response to many invitations from around
>> the country. They are in the midst of some initial fundraising to get
>> themselves on the road, after which they feel they can sustain the tour
>> through workshops and book sales.
>>
>> "Long Island is called long because it is. My friend (and patron, he
>> subsidized the writing of Consensus for Cities and it is dedicated to him)
>> lives in Manorville which is one and a half hours from NYC, almost to the
>> eastern end, just short of the Hamptons. This workshop is being subsidized
>> by my friend. He is providing the housing at no cost to me and the food at
>> cost. (His wife is a graduate of a vegetarian culinary institute in NYC I
>> do not remember the name of and she will be doing all the cooking.) The
>> idea was to raise money for the tour. "
>>
>> "Also, the folks we listed as references in the email really do want to
>> hear from interested folks. They had a powerful experience and they would
>> enjoy sharing it. They didn't just say "yes, I'll be a reference" they
>> enthusiastically encouraged me to have people to call them. Frankly, I was
>> quite surprised and pleased, after two weeks had passed and those
>> post-workshop feelings had dissipated (I would have thought).
>>
>>
>> I do realize that some of us have quite strong feelings about Mr. Butler,
>> and to some he is a controversial figure, and that there are other
>> proponents and models of consensus. I have certainly begun to expand my
>> reading list. That said, I find myself drawn to his work, and want to learn
>> more to test my strong belief that consensus would be a good model for
>> Boston to embrace. Please know I am doing some fundraising to sponsor C.T.
>> for another trip to Boston, but am unsure of the timing, and if it will
>> even happen.
>>
>> C. T. is also offering a discount to any one of us attends, and who
>> recruits someone else to attend. Call me for more info. Please forward
>> this email to anyone you think may be interested. I think the timing is
>> perfect, as we experiment internally with using consensus at Spokescouncil
>> meetings, and as Facilitation is encouraging a broad conversation about
>> process.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>> Greg
>> 617.413.6472 <tel:617.413.6472>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: C.T. Butler <ctbutler at together.net <mailto:ctbutler at together.net> >
>> Date: Sat, Feb 11, 2012 at 3:53 PM
>> Subject: Weariness in Occupyland
>> To: Gregory Murphy <gsjmurphy at gmail.com <mailto:gsjmurphy at gmail.com> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Greg, be sure to check out my answers to Sati's questions attached
>> below. I strongly encourage you to consider attending this workshop so you
>> know firsthand what I am teaching. C.T.]
>>
>>
>> There's a lot of weariness out there in Occupyland this winter. Are you
>> bunkered in, wondering how such diverse people will ever practice direct
>> democracy? Are you discouraged, or already taking a break? Has your GA
>> shrunk down to the loud cowboy voices and the peacekeepers trying to
>> placate them? How did we know, you ask?
>>
>>
>> Wren and I have been experiencing the same stew of elation, hope,
>> consternation and frustration that many of you have shared with us in
>> person, by phone and in emails. Occupy is our baby, too, and we are as
>> deeply invested in its success as you.
>>
>>
>> This is why I'm urgently inviting you to Fiopa Consensus
>> Collective's Consensus: Body & Soul workshop, February 24-26, on Long
>> Island, NY. The reason I want you to attend is that I believe, with all my
>> heart, that value-based consensus process is a revolutionary decisionmaking
>> process unlike the consensus process you have seen so far.
>>
>>
>> The following questions are typical of what we've been asked. These came
>> from Sati, of OWS:
>>
>>
>> What do you do when you suspect there are plants in a group that would
>> like the group not to reach consensus - it would like the group to fail to
>> make any decisions?
>> What do you do when a group of people who are just too emotional, they
>> start shouting at each other?
>> Consensus appears to fail even in a small group of people, how can we
>> expect it to work in a large group of people like cities? They can't even
>> gather together in one place. It seems to me that representative governance
>> just cannot be avoided. Once the group of representatives is down to around
>> 10 or so, we could possibly think of consensus. But even in that situation,
>> the interest of the super-rich is diagonally opposite to that of poor. How
>> are they going to reconcile with each other?
>> [My responses are attached at the bottom of this email.]
>>
>>
>> From our experience with groups that do ongoing deep work with this
>> model for years, we know that consensus can address and resolve the serious
>> problems the Occupy movement encountered with direct democracy. However,
>> you do not have to take our word for this. Fiopa Collective recently taught
>> this workshop to activists from Occupy Baltimore. Please feel free to
>> contact the attendees below and hear directly from them what they
>> experienced:
>>
>>
>> Zak Wear . zakwear at gmail.com <mailto:zakwear at gmail.com> . 410.570.9322<tel:
>> 410.570.9322> (graduate of Gilford College, a Quaker college)
>> Jenny Graf . jennygrafsheppard at gmail.com <mailto:
>> jennygrafsheppard at gmail.com> . 240.893.2239 <tel:240.893.2239>
>> Ed Boicourt . eboicourt at gmail.com <mailto:eboicourt at gmail.com> .
>> 443.677.9308 <tel:443.677.9308>
>> Lane Berck . 410.727.1880 <tel:410.727.1880> (leave message loudly and
>> twice)
>> The 2-day workshop on consensus will be held on Long Island (Manorville,
>> NY) Feb 24-26 (Friday evening to Sunday). It is accessible by the LIRR from
>> Penn Station to Mastic/Shirley or Patchogue (~$34 round-trip). We will
>> provide transportation from the train station to the venue. The host is an
>> experienced vegetarian chef. She will be providing light fare on Friday and
>> three meals Saturday & Sunday. We encourage folks to arrive Friday evening
>> whenever they can. Sessions will be 9am till 5pm both Saturday & Sunday.
>> All sessions will be held in a huge private home complete with hot tub. The
>> entire package is only $250/person, including tuition, room & board
>> (gourmet vegetarian food & indoor camping)! If you or anyone you know wants
>> a deep immersion in value-based consensus in an excellent environment, this
>> would be the one to attend. It promises to be an amazing experience! Please
>> print the brochure attached below and fill out and mail the registration
>> form or call Wren @ 410.458.2310 <tel:410.458.2310> for questions or to
>> register.
>> Again, I believe this work is an essential part of the change we all want
>> to see in our country. We need to learn how to make direct democracy work
>> for real. This is imperative. We cannot fail. To fail is to perish. Please
>> spread the word.
>> C.T. Butler
>> 301.586.2560 <tel:301.586.2560>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Spokes mailing list
>>
>> Post: Spokes at lists.occupyboston.org <mailto:
>> Spokes at lists.occupyboston.org>
>> List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/spokes
>>
>> To Unsubscribe
>> Send email to: Spokes-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org<mailto:
>> Spokes-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org>
>> Or visit:
>> https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/spokes/abucci%40occupyboston.org
>>
>> You are subscribed as: abucci at occupyboston.org <mailto:
>> abucci at occupyboston.org>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Consensus mailing list
>>
>> Post: Consensus at lists.occupyboston.org <mailto:
>> Consensus at lists.occupyboston.org>
>> List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/consensus
>>
>> To Unsubscribe
>> Send email to: Consensus-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org<mailto:
>> Consensus-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org>
>> Or visit:
>> https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/consensus/eghm627%40mac.com
>>
>> You are subscribed as: eghm627 at mac.com <mailto:eghm627 at mac.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Facilitation mailing list
>>
>> Post: Facilitation at lists.occupyboston.org
>> List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/facilitation
>>
>> To Unsubscribe
>> Send email to: Facilitation-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org
>> Or visit:
>> https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/facilitation/gsjmurphy%40gmail.com
>>
>> You are subscribed as: gsjmurphy at gmail.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Consensus mailing list
>
> Post: Consensus at lists.occupyboston.org
> List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/consensus
>
> To Unsubscribe
> Send email to: Consensus-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org
> Or visit: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/consensus/terraf%40compuserve.com
>
> You are subscribed as: terraf at compuserve.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Consensus mailing list
>
> Post: Consensus at lists.occupyboston.org
> List info: https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/listinfo/consensus
>
> To Unsubscribe
> Send email to: Consensus-unsubscribe at lists.occupyboston.org
> Or visit:
> https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/options/consensus/gsjmurphy%40gmail.com
>
> You are subscribed as: gsjmurphy at gmail.com
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.mayfirst.org/mailman/private/consensus/attachments/20120220/ade0190c/attachment-0001.htm>
More information about the Consensus
mailing list